THE DOERS with SADIKSHA THAPA || TALENT MANAGER M&S ||EP 13 PT 2 || NEPALI PODCAST

SADIKSHA THAPA: Company loyalty and staying with the company was the most important thing. There's often a gap between expectation versus reality when joining a startup. For digital marketing, they hire someone, but then they're just running Facebook, just looking at social media. Vulnerability is very important. And it doesn't feel like a weakness. My boss talked about depression. So if I'm feeling depressed, I can talk to him about it. He will relate to it. I'm very strong mentally. That's why I could take care of myself, but not everybody is meant to be strong. Anup Ghimire: In this context, what is the major issue discussed in our startup ecosystem and technology ecosystem? Is it that the team is struggling, HR is struggling, retention is struggling, isn't that the main point? From where you are standing, right? Either you have to see a flaw in the entrepreneurs. This is why you are suffering with this problem. Or you have to see a problem in the new generation. Where do you see the problem? SADIKSHA THAPA: On both sides. Because, you know, the reason is I would blame it on the generation. In that. Because no, no, millennials. Our generation. So the generation behind us, we are millennials. So millennials are termed as job hoppers, right? So they are hopping from one job to another. The generation before us, the baby boomers, the generation before that, for them, company loyalty and staying with the company was the most important thing, right? So they used to say, I'll join until I die, until I retire, I'll work for this company. But that generation is different. For them, the mentality is, the more jobs you hop, the more your salary increases, the more your growth happens. So, most of the startups running now are also run by millennials. So I think I would blame it on the millennials, where they are so, you know, they are so impatient. And, you know, even I was a job hopper. So it also depends on the company. And yeah, because I am also a job hopper. I have been switching so many jobs and all that. My friends also, many times... Anup Ghimire: So who do you blame? Not as a talent manager, but as a person. SADIKSHA THAPA: As a person. I have been hopping so many jobs. Anup Ghimire: So you blame the companies? SADIKSHA THAPA: I mean, it's 50-50%. If the company had created the environment accordingly, I would have stayed. And if I had been able to contribute accordingly, the company might have retained me. Anup Ghimire: Why couldn't you contribute? SADIKSHA THAPA: Because, again, I'll say, the psychological contract. The expectation that was shown to me initially, and the reality, expectation versus reality, that's what happens mostly when you join a startup. What they tell you to join, after joining, it's completely different. And okay, you join with an expectation. When you go there, it's nothing like what you expected. It's nothing like what you have been told. So as soon as that happens, the first dissatisfaction is that. It's like, "That's not what I joined for." But then you try to stay there because you don't want to be a job hopper again. And you try to, you know, compromise and try to do good, but because it's not a mental match, you can't give your 100%, no matter how much you try. You know, you can't force yourself to love a job if you don't really love your job. So yeah. Depends on the company and depends on the... Anup Ghimire: Person. SADIKSHA THAPA: Both had to blame. Anup Ghimire: Both had to blame. The solution for this, now, the psychological contract, I see the psychological contract as a very, very big solution. SADIKSHA THAPA: Yeah. At least be clear before hiring, what you want from that position, what you want from that person. Anup Ghimire: So both, both parties need to be clear. Both parties should be able to present their psychological contract, right? This is what I want, and this is what I can give. SADIKSHA THAPA: Yeah. The major part is communication, isn't it? So, when hiring, there's not that clarity about the job in many places. It's like, it's a startup, pretty much they make them do everything. And whatever the expertise is, whatever we are doing, for digital marketing, they hire someone, but then they're just running Facebook, just looking at social media. If the interest is in digital marketing as a whole, and if they are only focusing on one part, that is, managing content on social media, then their dissatisfaction goes there. So at least be clear what you want. Ask for a social media manager instead. That's the thing. So be clear. Clarify. Anup Ghimire: So I think the psychological contract would be something you should, you should write a big, long, long... SADIKSHA THAPA: Clarify everything with case studies and everything, yeah. Maybe I should do that. Anup Ghimire: You should, you should. It will help a lot of entrepreneurs. SADIKSHA THAPA: Yeah. Anup Ghimire: Please do. And this mental health issue is being discussed, right? Like, in any office environment, in any setup, in what context? Like, nowadays, direct bullying doesn't happen, right? So I'm not able to understand, where does this mental health, mental psychology come into play in an office? SADIKSHA THAPA: In the workplace. Um, I would say that the best would be if we can let employees, you know, team members, take a break for their mental health too. Sometimes, how it is... Anup Ghimire: On a daily basis? SADIKSHA THAPA: Not on a daily basis. It would be, like, some people have mental problems, but then they can't take a sick leave or annual leave. They cannot say, "I'm feeling this pressure mentally, or I'm depressed because of this, I'm not feeling right." In that situation, I think they should be, you know, given a break so that they can, you know, take care of their mental health. Here, people don't feel comfortable. Even last, even in one of our episodes, Anish talked about depression and everything. Slowly, people are starting to talk, but then people are still not comfortable if they have depression to share it with, you know, employers, let's say. If I say I have depression, what if they take me as a depressed person? What if... Anup Ghimire: They think I'm crazy. SADIKSHA THAPA: They think I'm crazy, but also, if you have depression, your productivity decreases, there's an impression that this person won't work well. I don't want that impression with my boss, so they never talk about their mental health. Anup Ghimire: So even with depression, one can be creative for the company? SADIKSHA THAPA: Yeah. With depression, if it's long-term depression, if... Anup Ghimire: You've been through it? SADIKSHA THAPA: Yeah. Anup Ghimire: You wanna talk about it? SADIKSHA THAPA: Uh mild depression, it's not clinical depression that I had to take medication or anything. But it wasn't that severe. I used to, because I was into psychology, I knew what I was going through. So it helped me a lot, so I could take care of myself. But how many people can't take care of themselves during depression? It's very difficult. No matter how much you try, people still don't take it as an illness. They take it as, you know, a state of mind, which is not true. And once you have depression, they say, "Get over it. Be happy. Smile." Yeah, it's an illness. People don't get it. So you wouldn't tell someone who's severely ill, "Just get up and get going," would you? You'd never say that to a cancer patient. You should never say that to depressed people. So that's something that is really sensitive, and that should be given a space where people can at least talk about it, you know, not be judged. That kind of environment needs to be created, I feel. Anup Ghimire: And that environment, I think, comes from society itself. As long as you are not open about talking about what's going on in your mind, even an employee can't say what's going on in their mind, right? Right? That's about upbringing and society. Because in Nepal, definitely, as soon as you say depression, you've made that division, clinical versus something else. Here, they think it's madness. SADIKSHA THAPA: When you say mental illness, they think you're crazy. Anup Ghimire: That's not it, is it? In that context, what's the solution? What would you advise me? How do I? So I want to have this culture in my company, right, where we can be open about these things. So what would my process be? SADIKSHA THAPA: Start with you. Like, you know, sometimes there aren't always happy moments. Sometimes you're feeling low, right? So in that situation, you can say, "I'm not really feeling myself, I'm feeling low. Like, you might want to take a break. I'm going to take a break." So if they ask, "What are you doing?" you can say, "Okay, since you have started talking yourself, they will feel comfortable talking about themselves." So start with your own story. In many cases, like you said, anxiety, panic attacks can happen. Okay, I'm feeling anxious right now. Having an anxiety disorder is different from having normal anxiety. Some might have an anxiety disorder. So if you share your own stories about that, they will feel comfortable sharing their own stories. Anup Ghimire: But it happens, right? There's a kind of pressure that as a CEO, as a founder of the company, you can't appear very vulnerable in front of your team, because they'll think, "Oh, my leader is so weak." That's the psychology, isn't it? SADIKSHA THAPA: It doesn't happen? Depends on how, where you draw the line. I think vulnerability is very important. And it's not a weakness, I feel. That's another article that I wrote about, right? Anup Ghimire: In the media? SADIKSHA THAPA: Yeah, in the media. So when you say vulnerability, people think that this person cries a lot, this person is very weak. But that's not it. Vulnerability is about showing your true self, right? And if you show your true self, they can trust you better. So with vulnerability too, what you can do is, you don't have to share every detail, but at least give them a basic outline. That if you have depression, you can say, "I'm not feeling really depressed right now. That's why my productivity might not be great. So I'm going to take a break. You guys carry on." If you say things like that, okay, that, yeah, my boss talked about depression. So if I'm feeling depressed, I can talk to him about it. He will relate to it. Anup Ghimire: Okay. SADIKSHA THAPA: Okay, that's another article that I wrote about, yeah, media. So vulnerability, people think that weak. Vulnerability is about showing your true self. If you show your true self, they can trust you better. So what you can do is, you don't have to share every detail, but at least give them a basic outline. That if you have depression, you can say, "I'm not feeling really depressed right now. Productivity, so I'm going to take a break. You guys carry on." Okay, my boss talked about depression. So if I'm feeling depressed, I can talk to him about it. He will relate to it. Anup Ghimire: Okay. SADIKSHA THAPA: Yeah. Anup Ghimire: Honestly, this part about cancer patients, cancer, I mean, like it's an example. Depression context. Accepting depression is a step towards coming out of that. I think it makes so much sense. SADIKSHA THAPA: Yeah, so because of symptoms, why am I feeling low? So I went through it when I was in school, school, class eight, nine, eight, two years, even ten, I was almost with it. So everybody has their own way of coping. I'm very strong mentally, I could take care of myself, but not everybody is mentally strong. So something that you have trained yourself, something that you have got from your parents, something trained. It's not something you trained yourself to be mentally strong. Mentally strong, because like there have been few instances where we had to tolerate a very difficult situation. So you grow into a mentally strong person. You, when you see a lot of problems, or you tend to be immune to it, getting numb, and all that. So I have to fight this. You also get the strength from the people around you. So you, you tend to self-harm yourself a lot. You tend to have suicidal thoughts. You have to, no, no, no. Yeah, of course, whenever at the point when you are at the top of the building, you think of that's when you stop yourself. But not everyone can do it. So if they can't stop themselves, they will jump out of the building. But then, how am I going to die? Is it going to be painful? Should I try that? That's scary. It's very scary. Yeah, like I never talked about it. Like I was going through depression. It's only after I studied psychology and started learning about the symptoms, everything, "Okay, this is what was happening to me." I started learning self-help books a lot because my mom. So I really did not have anyone to talk to. Books, they really gave me, they helped a lot. So my favorite self-help book, the one that really helped me is "The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari." That book. I'm really a big fan of Robin Sharma because he indirectly helped me to get out of it. I love, like "Rich Dad Poor Dad." So Robert's books, startup focus, I can understand. Anup Ghimire: The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari quotation: "The best thing, one of the greatest joys for a human is to be good at something you do." SADIKSHA THAPA: It was like really long back. The only thing I remember from the book is the 5 AM club, which I have not been able to do it till now. So good leaders say, "Wake up at five," and they start your morning at five o'clock. 5 AM club. I have never been able to do that. That's been the biggest challenge. Anup Ghimire: Okay, so value proposition, how do you define it? SADIKSHA THAPA: Uh, normally, I think words, normally, difficult definition. So value proposition, staff, company, company staff, company client. So it's going to be, yeah, just value, marketing, product value, company, why should they choose you, and why should the team members choose this company to work for? Anup Ghimire: Value proposition, expectation. For example, if a client is expecting something out of your service, and you delivering that, does that include? I just deliver, give a value that the client was expecting? Yeah, so value proposition is not something very abstract. Expect value. Value proposition. Yeah. SADIKSHA THAPA: Yeah. So expect value. Provide what value are you proposing? What do you think is going to be helpful for them? What is going to be helpful for you? Anup Ghimire: So value, communicate to the client, team, employer. I was listening to a lot of podcasts because if I'm doing a podcast and I'm not listening to podcasts, I think it doesn't make sense. So recently, podcast, podcast, podcast, value proposition, value proposition. As a strong company, like a company evolves, the customer, indirectly, the customer psychologically, I think that's where you start up will shine. That's where you will make a bigger difference. You'll stand out from your customers, and you start providing it. SADIKSHA THAPA: Okay, so that makes a lot of sense. I was talking about that, which is, which is Kantipur Digital Corp. Which is Kantipur Digital Corp. Kantipur, Kantipur Digitalization. So customers, because on the digital side, customers are on the digital side. So we should be able to consult them. This is going to be helpful for your company. This is how your company will grow. Value, they will trust us with the value that we are giving. That exactly matches with what you are talking about right now. Anup Ghimire: So I think so, it makes sense. SADIKSHA THAPA: Yeah. Anup Ghimire: In an MBA context, how important is an MBA for someone looking to start a company or looking to join a company? SADIKSHA THAPA: Because in the MBA context, it's important. Don't you think that depends on the individual, how they take it? Now, if someone wants to have an MBA and start their own company, I think they should be able to do that. If someone does not want an MBA and still wants to start a company, I think MBA. Kings College, one of the reasons was the network that Kings College had. Kings College, the best people they bring in as students. So network, I get to know them. So I think that was fulfilled when I did my MBA. The teachers that we had, HR, they were, I think, one of the best teachers that we could ever get. So sector interest, sector teacher, learning better. So MBA was really amazing, really good, and one of the best decisions that I took in my life. But a few friends were not very happy with the MBA that they did. So it really depends on how you take it, and what you expect from an MBA, and whether you're going to get it or not, whether you're going to meet the expectations or not. Anup Ghimire: For you, it worked. SADIKSHA THAPA: Yeah, it clicked. I expected Kings, joined for MBA. I think I expected cost-benefit analysis. Anup Ghimire: Yeah. SADIKSHA THAPA: So ROI. Anup Ghimire: Nice, nice. Moving along, I think last podcast, employer branding. Could you shed some light on it? SADIKSHA THAPA: Uh, so employer branding is like, as a term, a new concept, but we have been doing it, like companies have been doing it in their own ways. MNCs have been doing it. Employer branding is basically the way you portray yourself to the potential talented pools that we have in our country. SADIKSHA THAPA: For you, it worked. It clicked. It clicked, wonderfully. What I expected, I joined Kings for MBA, and what I got, I think I got more than what I had expected. Anup Ghimire: So in the cost-benefit analysis, you are on the upper end. SADIKSHA THAPA: Yeah. So the ROI was really good, you could say. Anup Ghimire: Nice, nice. Moving along, I think we are, we are nearing the end of the podcast. I want to talk to you about something. I want to talk about employer branding. Could you, could you shed some light on it? SADIKSHA THAPA: Uh, so employer branding is like, as a term, a new concept, right? But we have been doing it, like companies have been doing it in their own ways. MNCs have been doing it in their own ways. Employer branding is basically the way you portray yourself, you know, to the potential talented pools that we have in our country. How do we show ourselves, our company's personality, how do we make ourselves known, so that the best pools are attracted to working with our company? Something like that. Anup Ghimire: So, like doing good labeling for your company, so that... SADIKSHA THAPA: Not labeling, when you say labeling, it's like, you know, like putting on a level that doesn't exist. But it's more like, when you do company branding, we try to... Anup Ghimire: What kind of things add up to company branding? SADIKSHA THAPA: Um, it could be about the kinds of trainings that you provide to your team members to develop them, you know, and the benefits that they get. In some cases, in some companies, for startups, maybe medical insurance, health insurance might not be there. So we will say, we have all these benefits too. These are the benefits that you get. These are the growing, what do you call it, platforms that you can utilize for your own personal growth. Something like that. Some people might be interested by a two-day weekend, and we have a two-day weekend, so they can join. For some, it's like, you know... Anup Ghimire: So it's additional value for the employee? SADIKSHA THAPA: Yeah. So what are the benefits that make people... Anup Ghimire: People start to talk, and then you attract good people. Okay, nice. Another thing, you are working in this startup ecosystem, so how much opportunity do you see in Nepal in the coming days? SADIKSHA THAPA: As a company? Or? Anup Ghimire: As a company, as a citizen, as, as anything, you know, when talking about opportunity, at what scale do you see opportunities growing in Nepal, or is it just okay, it's the same, not much? SADIKSHA THAPA: Um, in the case of the ripple effect, you know, the first drop that creates the ripple effect. I think that drop has already happened, and slowly, slowly, that ripple effect is happening, I feel. So it's growing. Um, I also feel that like, everyone has a phase, a bubble phase that will burst. So it might burst someday or so, I feel, right? Because earlier, real estate also boomed like that and then it burst. Then there was this, ah, we talked about the dot-com phase, during which the bubble became so big that it burst. Maybe startups can also become like that, it's not impossible. Like the pattern shows that it's coming very soon, something like that. But until that happens, if we can, you know, take the maximum benefit, prepare ourselves for that time, I think it's good. Anup Ghimire: Good. So do you see future billionaires in Nepal? SADIKSHA THAPA: Yeah, with the current inflation and then, you know, the value of money, the way it's decreasing, the way inflation is happening. I think definitely billionaires. People are becoming millionaires right now. In the past, even when we used to watch Amitabh Bachchan's movies, we used to say 10 lakhs, right? That used to be a very huge amount. Now, when we say 10 crores, it's already the era where 10 crores is said. So yeah, definitely billionaires. Anup Ghimire: 10 crores also. SADIKSHA THAPA: Yeah, 10 crores. So, like, even if we talk about digital wallets, 10 crores is nothing if you want to start a digital wallet company here. So yeah, it's like that. So yeah, definitely future billionaires. But, uh, accordingly, but seriously speaking, accordingly, if we can build that environment, you know. Because right now, uh, in these startups, because of the technological advancement, so much internet, and accordingly, the technical development has happened well, then companies can really grow. I think that environment is not yet that mature. To nourish those startups, uh, what do you call it? If the womb where the baby is born is not ready, then the baby doesn't grow properly, right? So for me, right now, I feel that the womb is not ready where the baby can, you know, grow, I feel. Anup Ghimire: Nice answer. Good. So now this is my last question to you, Sadiksha, right? For example, this is something I listen to on a podcast by Tim Ferriss, right? And I'm hugely inspired by that. So I am a very regular listener to this guy. And what he does is, for every guest he invites, right? At the end, he asks something like this: So if you were given a billboard where millions of people are watching it every day, right? What would you write? And whatever you write has to be something very special to you. So that's my question to you. So there is a billboard. Maybe not millions, but a couple of people are watching it every day, right? So what would you write here? And it has to be something special for you. SADIKSHA THAPA: You have to say it and then write? Anup Ghimire: Say it and then write. SADIKSHA THAPA: Um, just breathe because you are gonna do it. Anup Ghimire: You're gonna do it. You're gonna die. SADIKSHA THAPA: Both. Just breathe. There are times because this is something I'm personally very attached to. Because at times, you know, we are so depressed that we are breathing, but then we are not consciously breathing. So but at that time, if we just close our eyes and we can focus on breathing, and if we, you know, take long breaths, it's really going to help our mental health. It really calms you down. So sometimes we are so stressed, so involved in things that we are breathing unconsciously, but then we don't tend to breathe consciously, and it really helps, I feel, to calm ourselves down. Anup Ghimire: So just breathe. SADIKSHA THAPA: Yeah, so it's like a tip for mental well-being. Anup Ghimire: Okay. Alright, perfect. You have a pen, right? Would you just come, you can write. This would be something that we will look after every day. SADIKSHA THAPA: And do I need to sign too? Anup Ghimire: Yes. It'll be a check. SADIKSHA THAPA: Not a check, just a signature. Anup Ghimire: Okay, perfect. Just do it. Nike. SADIKSHA THAPA: Okay. Anup Ghimire: So perfect. I think today's podcast, how was it? I think it was very focused on entrepreneurs, right? For example, how much ROI have I gotten from this? And you know, a lot of people who are thinking of starting their own company, who have already started their own company, are struggling with a lot of things, right? HR, this and that. We talked about a few terms. I hope it's going to help. Is there anything you want to talk about? You want to say something at the end? SADIKSHA THAPA: I think we pretty much covered everything. Anup Ghimire: Okay. So guys, thank you so much for watching, right? Whether you are watching us on YouTube or Google Podcasts or Anchor. Thank you so much. And I hope today's content was very motivating for you, enjoyable too, and from an information perspective, I found it great. I hope you found it great. Uh, keep watching. Uh, do like us, subscribe to us, right? Comment on us, give us feedback because we're going to come up with a lot of new episodes. We're going to bring in a lot of new doers, old doers. So with that, we'll see you on our next episode. Take care. Bye bye.